Sounding Board - Sex on Television

[m4pl3g1rl]

So my friends and I are having a debate, and I'd love to get input here.

There are a lot of shows in the current US TV and Cable/Satellite lineups that are pretty decent, well written, well acted and so on, but will spontaneously have a sex scene. For example, a show that just premiered 'Defiance', was going along, making sense, and then spent time that they didn't need to with a sex scene between the main male character and one of the supporting female characters.

My husband and I think we don't need to see any of that because we get the same message with a kiss, a giggle and a shut door, and have more time for the meat of the story. (No pun intended.) Our friends say that it's just playing to the realism of society. (Plus a lot of my friends are male and they like with the boobies on television.)

Personally I find sex a messy affair, and a good thing in private, but not something I necessarily want to watch. I think anticipation, or titillation, is a better device in storytelling. You can know what's going on, you don't need to see it to believe it.

What do you guys think? Seeing or Knowing?

[RMDC]

I'm with you, m4pl3, and for the same reasons. I just don't watch primetime dramas anymore, and that's partly why.

[blackmageheart]

I agree with you two - it's really not necessary for the majority of the time. And I also don't watch dramas and things because of it.
I don't think it's a reflection of society. Sure, plenty of people are at it but I'd wager not many of them are being watched. We're not all voyeurs and don't need to see it to know it's happening. Like you m4pl3, I prefer a hint of it for storytelling rather than watching the act.

[starrley]

I agree with the three of you. I have to disagree with BMH though, on one thing. I do think that it's a reflection on society. Sure, people have always been having sex, and there's always been prostitution and pornography ever since the technology for it was invented. But the fact that it's becoming more "okay" to show it in movies and TV shows that society is more lax in it's standards. Was it hypocritical in 50s television to keep everything so clean and pretend like everything was okay? Sure, and that was a response to WW2. But everyone knows that sex sells, and people don't mind seeing it everywhere. Once they get used to seeing it, it doesn't seem indecent anymore. I do worry about our kids, what with the internets and all. Public school is much worse today than it was when we were kids.
As far as watching a show, I definitely prefer the "door close and giggle" than having to actually watch the sex.
I hope this post makes sense. I feel like I'm all over the place.

[MeiTow]

I think it depends on the show, how's it's been presented, the moment of the scene, etc. For example, one of my favorite shows was * as Folk U.S. version and I felt the sex scenes were very appropriate to the show and its overall cadence. I watched the U.K. version some years afterward and they didn't really show many if any sex scenes (it's been awhile now so I don't remember if there were actual explicit scenes in it). The two main characters, Brian and Justin (Stuart and Nathan respectively) have a pretty intense sex scene in the first episode as Brian just wants a conquest and finds Justin has no idea what he's doing as he's still a high-schooler and a virgin. As the show goes on their relationship goes from just one-night stand to an actual relationship to break-up and back (the U.S. version had three extra seasons to develop this) and the sex between them and others in the show fits with the show. Game of Thrones is another example, imo, of the show and the sex it does show really fits. Sure there were a couple of needless sex scenes (Littlefinger telling the story of his boyhood while the whores are practicing behind of him was a little gratuitous and, hey, a * as Folk connection tee hee); but, overall, I believe they belong in the tone of the story. Something good in amongst all the bad. I haven't watched Defiance so I don't know how the scene you spoke of fits with the episode but I do agree that some shows definitely use sex as a "come look at me/be shocked" device. However, I don't think all sex should be taken out of show because it is natural and can be used as a good story-telling device. Game of Thrones again with Theon Greyjoy, the sex he has and how he has it shows his character better than his arguments with his father or Robb. The scene in season 2 with Roz and the Maester didn't have anything express except her getting dressed and him in his dressing gown so we know what happened but the conversation between them and the idea that even old men need love is very compelling and was done without showing the act of copulation at all (although Roz's breasts were bare but I don't mind that anyway).

[Kareesh]

I hate it for several reasons:

First is because of my moral beliefs. Secondly, I don't like it because I suffer from sever self-esteem/self-worth issues. Seeing all these sexy women being "loved" by all these men really makes me feel like crap. I have to struggle with feeling that my husband still finds me attractive, even though I don't look like them and he wants to be with me. I know that women have probably always struggled with this, but when you put sex all over the TV, then I think those without the "perfect" body starts to feel like there's something wrong with them. Now that I have a daughter, I'm worried that she'll have a poor self-image as I do. I make a point to tell her every day that she's beautiful.

I don't mind if something is implied, but when you're putting more explicit things on, it seems like you're just trying to push the envelope or sensulize things. I personally think it's disgusting all the shows on prime time nowadays. Back when I was a kid, prime time was when you would watch things as a family, right? Now, I wouldn't watch most of the shows that are on. Thankfully, we don't get any channels so I turn to Netflix for all my video entertainment needs. During the day I watch kids shows and at night, I watch documentaries. I think it's also a shame that a lot of sexual things are on basic channels as well. It use to be you could only have that stuff on the cable networks, but now it seems as though they just stopped caring. :-/

[blackmageheart]

But the fact that it's becoming more "okay" to show it in movies and TV shows that society is more lax in it's standards.

Oh, I agree with that sentiment, I think there is too much of it nowadays - like it's a required element in a screenplay or something. I'm not sure how to word what I wanted to say earlier, but it was more about the "realism of society" that m4pl3 mentioned. I'm not sure that it accurately represents a realistic view of sex, much less a realistic recreation of the act itself. Or perhaps that's just me being unlucky! (I'm not well, words aren't easy right now!)
I would agree with a point that MeiTow made and it is that it does depend on the show and also the character(s) involved. I do believe that it is a good device but only when used in the right way, and not just because some director decided "NEEDS MOAR SECKS"
I can also sympathise with you Kareesh, as I feel much like you do. It's another reason I don't watch many modern shows. However, because I do have someone that loves me the way I am (even though I have to remind myself of it all the time!) I find I enjoy more romantic things instead. Which is why I think I prefer the hinted at stuff.

[RMDC]

And of course, as a student of radical feminist theory, I can't help but notice that sex on TV - even well-handled sex, and even sex in shows which are ostensibly focused on women, like The L Word - is generally there simply to reinforce patriarchal norms, often as many as can possibly be crammed in. But that, mayhap, is a conversation for another time, or at least one better handled by someone who's already invested a lot of effort in analyzing the issue, like my personal hero Anita Sarkeesian.

[Eliste]

We just watched Defiance last night and I know the scene you're talking about. It was a bit out of place, but it didn't bother me. I mean, she's a madam, what else would she be doing? And I think its going to set up some very interesting story telling things later down the road.

I mind it when its nudity/sex for no good reason. Halley Berry sunbathing topless in Swordfish immediately comes to mind. Pointless, doesn't move the story forward. But most of the time I don't feel its THAT unnecessary.

A kiss, giggle and closed door is only going to imply so much. Sex can be incredibly powerful. The repercussions from sex can be powerful. NOT having sex can be powerful and the repercussions from that can also be powerful. If your storyline is going to tie in to what happened between those two people then I do think you need to show what type of sex it was- I mean the consenting/the loving/the horribleness/etc. A kiss, giggle and closed door doesn't, for instance, explain why someone would then avoid the other and freak out later on. I mean, you can draw inferences from it, but there are far too may possibilities for you to accurately guess what went on behind that closed door.

Game of Thrones has also been brought up a lot in the sex question these days. Really, it doesn't actually show a lot of SEX. there's plenty of nudity, sure. And nudity is something that I think has to be separated from sex when you talk about these things. I have no real problem with the nudity in GoT. Its very accurate to the books, to the characters, and situations. Again, Halley Berry's Swordfish tit appearance though bothered me greatly- although him catching her in her underwear with the wire did not which I think perfectly sums up the difference between the two uses I think.

[Lileya]

We just watched Defiance last night and I know the scene you're talking about. It was a bit out of place, but it didn't bother me. I mean, she's a madam, what else would she be doing? And I think its going to set up some very interesting story telling things later down the road.

I mind it when its nudity/sex for no good reason. Halley Berry sunbathing topless in Swordfish immediately comes to mind. Pointless, doesn't move the story forward. But most of the time I don't feel its THAT unnecessary.

A kiss, giggle and closed door is only going to imply so much. Sex can be incredibly powerful. The repercussions from sex can be powerful. NOT having sex can be powerful and the repercussions from that can also be powerful. If your storyline is going to tie in to what happened between those two people then I do think you need to show what type of sex it was- I mean the consenting/the loving/the horribleness/etc. A kiss, giggle and closed door doesn't, for instance, explain why someone would then avoid the other and freak out later on. I mean, you can draw inferences from it, but there are far too may possibilities for you to accurately guess what went on behind that closed door.

Game of Thrones has also been brought up a lot in the sex question these days. Really, it doesn't actually show a lot of SEX. there's plenty of nudity, sure. And nudity is something that I think has to be separated from sex when you talk about these things. I have no real problem with the nudity in GoT. Its very accurate to the books, to the characters, and situations. Again, Halley Berry's Swordfish tit appearance though bothered me greatly- although him catching her in her underwear with the wire did not which I think perfectly sums up the difference between the two uses I think.

My thought exactly. Although I disagree slightly with the reference to GoT. I feel the sex/nudity in the show is a lot more present than in the books. But anyway, back then people were barbarous, stank and women were treated like dirt, and the show sums that up pretty well.

I'm for more realitism in television. And sex is a HUGE part of life, that we'd like to admit it to ourselves or not. And it's rarely clean and romantic... So that's what I wanna see!

Although I don't watch network TV a lot, which tends to be bland and "for the whole family" and it isn't my cup of tea. So maybe this has a lot to do with it?

I'd pick a realistic and crude drama over a washed out and clean network show, but that's just me.