Video Games and Misogyny

[RMDC]

A discussion on the Rank the LOZ Series thread evolved enough to deserve its own space, so here we go!

I ASSERT: Video games are pretty terrible to women. Female characters are rarely (oh so rarely) shown as ordinary human beings. Game designers paint women as stereotypes instead: the oversexed, corset-wearing eye candy; the swooning back-row caster; the woman who's considered capable only because she takes on a traditionally male role in an overdone way. It's such a major occurrence when a non-stereotypical woman appears in a game that the game itself becomes a kind of automatic response to feminist criticism of video games. "Yeah, but what about Beyond Good & Evil?"

In the other thread, Icelandic Hitman provided a list of games with strong female leads. I'll repost it wholesale here:

April Rain - The longest Journey series is the character that puts Jade to shame.
Aya Brea - Parasite Eve
<Harvest Moon Cast>
Jen - Primal
Samantha Swift - her series
The girl from P.N.0.3
Catherine the Great + Queen Nifitti - Civilisation Series
Emily, Fryda and Meilin - Teranigma
Kai - Heavenly Sword
Girl - Lost in Blue series
Samas Aran - Metroid 2 and Super Metroid.
LuLuLu - Space Channel 5
Judy Nails, Pandora - Guitar Hero/Rock Band
Terra Branford - Final Fantasy 3/6
Katia - Lost Kindgoms
Alexandra Roivas - Eternal Darkness
Lenneth Valkryie - Valkryie Profile series.

I haven't actually played most of these games, so I can only address a few. I hope others will contribute.

Aya Brea - passes the test. She's competent, and she isn't traded on her gender.
The Harvest Moon cast - do not pass the test. Every one of the females in the game is a stereotype, and most have been placed specifically to be married to the main character. In the recent few games which have allowed the player to select a female character as a play avatar, that avatar is a reskin of the male character - with pinks and pastels predominating.
Samus Aran - it's debatable. I don't think she fits into the super-masculinized stereotype by any means; on the other hand, I don't think they would have used the baby Metroid plot with a male lead. :/
LuLuLu - she's wearing a space miniskirt and dancing. Enough said.
Terra - she's got no character of her own. She's less a character than an in-game event; even with such a broad cast, she's the least-developed character (fergawsakes, Strago and Relm get better scripting). She's defined by her relationship to her father, her amnesia, and her magical ability. A better candidate from this game would be Celes, who is both well-developed and competent. Celes is not defined by her relationship with Locke and Cid; rather, we watch those relationships develop in-game, and both male characters are equally invested in the relationships.


The other issue I have is that these games are so few and far between compared to the whole of video game history. A few shining examples in the midst of a raging sea of sexism is not an excuse for the industry to rest on its laurels.

Do you have other games to add to the list? Who are your favorite female characters, and do they break the mold?

[Knittenkitten]

I've played Primal and still own the game. I found Jen to be more "normal" in my point of view. Yes, she wears a corset top and heels throughout the whole game but she's not a girl who swoons at the slightest inclination. She's strong, sarcastic, and can be a bit of handful for the other characters in game (which are mostly male). SHe's trying to save her boyfriend and in the end has to fight him and win against him. She is certainly not a Zelda or a Peach who can't do anything without breaking a nail. I don't usually like playing games with female leads because of the stereotypes they are usually forced into but this one doesn't have that at all.

[blackmageheart]

I would generally agree with that, although I found Jen to be a little too self-pitying at times. But who wouldn't be in that situation, right?

I have always liked Alis Landale from Phantasy Star I. One of the first female leads.
A princess, yes, but she doesn't know it. When her brother is killed by the robotcops, instead of turning into a puddle of tears she wants revenge and finds herself on an adventure, setting in motion events that will shape her solar system for thousands of years to come. I never felt like she fit into any stereotype. However, she does wear a pink dress!

Spoiler

[DuckyBelkins]

Once upon a time I thought Curly was a good female character in Cavestory but I haven't played the game in the last few years.
Something I REALLY like about Maplestory is that the female characters are not sexualized, they have almost the same exact body as the male characters. Another thing I like about Maplestory is that the majority of leaders in the game are women.

[m4pl3g1rl]

Art, video games, movies, TV shows, books - we live in a largely patriarchal society, and for hundreds/thousands of years men dominated society, which meant they dictated how women were to be, act, think, dress, and behave. And women came to think that this was the role they were meant to play and began to play it well. Even to the point of rejecting other women who didn't behave in the 'right' way.

And then people started to evolve. Society started to evolve. It's taken hundreds of years but women have so much now, and every day we're improving. We still have a long ways to go, but we're taking steps forward.

I mean 50 years ago a woman president of the United States was unthinkable. Women having jobs while men stayed home with the kids was looked at as a mistake, but now is becoming more prevalent. Celebrated, even.

If people want to see change, support the change you want to see. Don't buy the media that supports a weak female, if that is what bothers you. Go to Kickstarter.com and put your money where your beliefs are.

Talking down or yelling at people for playing the games that one may consider misogynistic will never help. Not that I think you're doing this here, but this is my standard response to this issue.

I am a woman, and my husband and I are proud supporters of kickstarter, and media that celebrates women. But we also don't like sticking labels on things. This is how we get people who say that Star Wars is 'only for boys'. (Look up Katie the Star Wars Girl for references.) No labels = no prejudice. ^_^

Sometimes I wonder if I'm a sort of new-new-age hippie. ^_^

[stitchingmama]

I think the reason it's great to have a discussion like this is in hopes to get rid of some of the ignorance in the world.

I grew up in a fairly small but liberal city and until I was 14 I thought sexism was mostly non existent. Then my parents moved me to a very small city and I learned the truth. Sexist jokes were told in class, despite the second best mark in physics class my male teacher didn't even know my name, winning a math award was met with the comment "a boy always wins that award", etc. I had to start speaking for women because no one else was. When I would tell my peers (& my elders) that I was a feminist I was met with fearful looks and sometimes comments like "feminists are nuts, they can't be reasoned with". I never backed down and simply took the time to explain that to me a feminist is someone who believes that men and women are equal and fights for those rights. Many people gave me quizzical looks and said "does that mean I'm a feminist?" I like to beleive I made at least a small difference with at least one person.

What I'm trying to say is that I beleive a few strong women speaking up has the potential to give confidence to other women to speak up too and maybe one day we'll all truly believe and practice equality.

[DuckyBelkins]

"I grew up in a fairly small but liberal city and until I was 14 I thought sexism was mostly non existent." YES YES THIS WAS ME OMG until I was, like, 21. I even thought that feminists just wanted to be "one-step ahead of men" *vomits everywhere*

[Icelandic Hitman]

Ellen - folklore
Joanna dark - perfect dark
Female belmonts - castlevania
Titania - fire emblem.
Pixies from rodland
Grandia - all female dev staff
The girl from kameo
Ace attorney
Skye - Darkened Skye

I should point out my list was of characters that didn't have the 3 traits you mentioned, to which lululu while a stereo typical tv show host ditz but not one of the 3 things you listed. Sure some/most of the hm cast fail, but Karen and others broke the mold abit rather than say Muffy.

Re Jen and her corset her creators where( still kinda are ) goths.

[RMDC]

I should point out my list was of characters that didn't have the 3 traits you mentioned, to which lululu while a stereo typical tv show host ditz but not one of the 3 things you listed. Sure some/most of the hm cast fail, but Karen and others broke the mold abit rather than say Muffy.

Re Jen and her corset her creators where( still kinda are ) goths.

Well, Goth culture is dangerously sexist anyway as it relies on patriarchal markers, but that's yet another topic. I agree that Karen breaks the mold, at least in Harvest Moon 64 and Friends of Mineral Town. It still bothers me that she quits her job when you marry her in 64 - she and her father may have issues, but she really does love wine. And as for Lululu, I repeat: space miniskirt.

I grew up in a fairly small but liberal city and until I was 14 I thought sexism was mostly non existent.

YES YES THIS WAS ME OMG until I was, like, 21. I even thought that feminists just wanted to be "one-step ahead of men" *vomits everywhere*

I grew up in MIssissippi, so I thought I was super-feminist for believing in a vague gender equality up until I was in my mid-twenties. I didn't believe sexism was over, but I didn't really understand critical gender theory, and I'd only ever heard of Andrea Dworkin by reading Alan Dershowitz deride her in The Best Defense. Now I have a little shrine to Mary Daly, and I burn bras and don't shave my legs.

Once upon a time I thought Curly was a good female character in Cavestory but I haven't played the game in the last few years.

I just downloaded Cave Story on the 3DS - which I highly recommend, BTW, as it's the original CS with just the right amount of 3D layering, plus Curly Story and Time Attack - and I kind of agree. The worst you can possibly say about Curly is that she's super-chipper in a schoolgirl genki sort of way, and as female stereotypes go, that's hardly the worst.

Spoiler

She needs rescuing twice, but the first time is because she sacrificed her own air tank to give it to Quote (self-sacrifice for the benefit of men is a dangerous slope, but they're largely genderless killer robots). As for the second time, I hardly think she's being portrayed as weak by giving out on the way to fight Ballos; lawd knows I give out plenty of times on that trip, too.

I never felt like she fit into any stereotype. However, she does wear a pink dress!

I want to play that so badly. I guess I ought to fire up an emulator and get it done sometime.

I ought to differentiate my earlier point about pink - I have no problem with anyone liking pink, or being portrayed wearing it. I do have a problem with it when it's a specific marker of gender, especially when a) it's suffusive in order to really gender that lady or b) when it's applied as a way to "girlify" something that would otherwise be default (and therefore masculine, as masculinity is default under patriarchy).

So, without having played PS1 but having heard good things about Alis, I imagine those don't apply to her.

Talking down or yelling at people for playing the games that one may consider misogynistic will never help. Not that I think you're doing this here, but this is my standard response to this issue.

I am a woman, and my husband and I are proud supporters of kickstarter, and media that celebrates women. But we also don't like sticking labels on things. This is how we get people who say that Star Wars is 'only for boys'. (Look up Katie the Star Wars Girl for references.) No labels = no prejudice. ^_^

I agree with your principle 100%, but I'm very wary of tone arguments. The first response to anger at sexism is often something like, "Feminists are shooting themselves in the foot, because even if they have a point to make, they're always so angry and obnoxious that no one wants to hear it." Sexism is srs bidness, and sometimes it's really worth getting angry over. Not that I started this thread in anger, mind, as this thread is for us at Sprite Stitch, and we have a dearth of sexist game designers and producers here. I simply think that "lighten up man" is a treacherous path.

Labels are a tool; they can be used properly or misapplied. I disagree that no labels = no prejudice. That's what colorblind theory and third-wave feminism rely on, and both are rent-seeking systems which are oriented on protecting the status quo rather than attacking racism and sexism. Instead of getting rid of labels, people have to be willing to discuss what labels honestly mean; we must be willing to look past their shock application and not allow ourselves to be led around by their use as framing devices.

(I follow Jen on Facebook via the EPBOT feed, so I'm familiar with Katie. Did you know the 501st made her a full-on Stormtrooper for Halloween? )

[m4pl3g1rl]

I agree that people need to look seriously at what labels mean. When I say no labels = no prejudice, I don't mean that we should ignore the elephant in the room.

"Honey, there's an elephant over there."
"Shhh, we're not allowed to discuss him. We're all pretending it's normal."

I wholeheartedly agree that we need to address things, however, I also believe that we need to give up things as well. In order to stop seeing labels in everyone else, we have to give up the ones we put on ourselves. And the ones we're expecting others to put on us.

I know it sounds preachy and all that, I can't quite figure out how to put it right. Y'know how when you're expecting to get caught if you're doing something wrong and you behave oddly, instead of behaving normal? It's like that only with labels we're expecting from others. I'm fat, but I need to let go of expecting it, or letting it affect me, when others call me out. Or the fact that I'm a Mormon. I went through a time when I was a child that a girl told me she couldn't be my friend because of my religion. That affected me profoundly - that's one of the many experiences when I decided I didn't want to make anyone feel like that. Outsider, outcast.

Not that I'm perfect by any means. I still struggle with labels both from without and within. I catch myself judging people. Ugh, I hate it when I do that! But I no longer let terms dictate my friendships or who I say hello to. Just because someone else believes differently than I do does not mean they are not equal to me. It does not put them ahead or behind me. I believe that all mankind i created equal. I believe in standing up for what is right, no matter who is at fault or who is the victim.

Oh and I saw the post on the 501st legion giving Katie her stormtrooper armor. How AMAZING was that!