Pokemon Home Sweet Home

[La Ptite Bete]

Yes... The boundary between what is legal, and what is not, isn't very clear, indeed. I think it's more an ethics and honnesty problem, than a law one. I wouldn't feel very proud to copy and stitch a paying pattern, without have paid it, just staring at the pics ; but I would not feel so sorry if this pattern doesn't seem to have required a lot of work ; if what makes it interesting is more the concept, than an effective work (I'm not very clear myself, not easy to explain it in english... sorry !!). In other words, if you use well known sprites, and just add a quote below ; I won't do it anyway (from a paying pattern I mean), because I prefer to find an idea, and design my own patterns, now I know KG charts !! but... to me, there should be different tolerance levels... In the same idea, if I were a pattern designer, I don't think I would want to make money with these patterns, which I feel they don't belong to me...

[spinuntilyoufall]

Just to be sure ; I wonder, do we really have the right to sell that kind of patterns... ? this one, for example, is a screenshot from a game, it hasn't been modified by the pattern designer (except the "home sweet home" text which has been added) ; the original design belongs to videogames designers, doesn't it ? (not to us, all the more if we use a freeware to make the pattern...) ; and finally, what if I decide to make exactly the same pattern, using a screenshot of the game (with my emulator) ; for me, or to give it for free on the forums for example ?...

Copyright is a bit confusing.
You don't have the right to sell the likeness of things (such as the characters, items, houses, etc), however you do have the write to use them in homemade items, however you cannot sell them "commercially". Although the term commercially is a bit ambiguous.
The pattern is under copyright of 'intellectual property', so only she has the right to sell the idea (and thus the pattern). However, you can make an exact copy for yourself, no problem. Giving the pattern out for free though isn't allowed, unless the person who made it gives you permission. To sell it though, you have to enter a written contract, otherwise they can still sue you.

As I say, its confusing, that's the info you need to know to sell it though. I checked with a lawyer friend in the family before I started selling my patterns.
Oh, on a side note, if something is too similar to a copyrighted product, they can still sue you. For example if you made one where the sign and person were swapped around, you could still be sued.

I'm not familiar with Pokemon, so I can't say for sure on this one... but I was a "Copyright Specialist" (swear to God, that was part of my title...) at my last job in a print shop. If this is a straight screenshot from the game and not modified in any way then technically the seller on Etsy is illegally using it. As Lord Libidan said, as the copyright for the character belongs to Nintendo, NO ONE has any right to use their characters to make money. Technically, if you sell fan art that has your ideas but using commercial characters, you are breaking the law because the idea of the character itself belongs to the company. Just because the Etsy seller chose to turn it into a pattern first doesn't give them rights to characters and screenshots that don't belong to them in the first place.

Now, if you took sprites from six different games and arranged them into a pattern and added a border and text, and sell the pattern on Etsy, and then someone "steals" your pattern off Etsy and posts it here - technically the Etsy person is breaking copyright, and you are just trying not to pay for a pattern that it is not really legal to sell. Is Nintendo going to come after a seller on Etsy? Probably not, they really don't care. But you aren't breaking copyright (any more than the first person) by putting together a pattern that is similar.

I would say that the distinction comes from how you got your pattern. If you are using Etsy for inspiration, get your sprites from somewhere like the Spriter's resource, and then create a similar pattern - I would say that's not wrong at all - after all (especially in this case) it's not like this Home Sweet Home concept is exactly novel....... If you're copying stitch for stitch off of what someone has created (and especially if they've done a lot of modifications to the original sprite,) so you don't have to pay the couple of bucks for a pattern... well, that's your choice, but it seems to be the Sprite Stitch way (and as an Etsy seller myself, I agree) not to keep patterns up that are copied straight from someone's Etsy pattern.

So, the Etsy seller can be annoyed that you didn't buy their pattern, but they didn't really have the right to sell the character in the first place (even though this is super common, and several of the patterns that I sell use commercial characters that I don't have the rights to - again, it's pretty much overlooked because we are creating cross stitch patterns, not really cutting into a game company's profits...)

[RMDC]

You're right; I should have checked. My apologies. That'll teach me to be more careful!

[spinuntilyoufall]

It's alright if you didn't notice, but the pattern maker should have checked...

I agree that patterns from Etsy shouldn't be re-created here, but I don't think it's the pattern makers responsibility to search every site that sells cross stitch patterns (Etsy's not the only one) to make sure it's not for sale somewhere. It should be taken down if it's discovered, and avoided if possible, but if you see an image on Google, and it isn't obvious that it's for sale somewhere (like having an etsy address, for example) - then it's going to happen every once and awhile. This was a finished piece, not a picture of a pattern, so even that wouldn't have clued someone off. I don't think RMDC should be blamed for trying to fill a pattern request....

Yes... The boundary between what is legal, and what is not, isn't very clear, indeed. I think it's more an ethics and honnesty problem, than a law one. I wouldn't feel very proud to copy and stitch a paying pattern, without have paid it, just staring at the pics ; but I would not feel so sorry if this pattern doesn't seem to have required a lot of work ; if what makes it interesting is more the concept, than an effective work (I'm not very clear myself, not easy to explain it in english... sorry !!). In other words, if you use well known sprites, and just add a quote below ; I won't do it anyway (from a paying pattern I mean), because I prefer to find an idea, and design my own patterns, now I know KG charts !! but... to me, there should be different tolerance levels... In the same idea, if I were a pattern designer, I don't think I would want to make money with these patterns, which I feel they don't belong to me...

This is beautifully put, I think you've hit it on the nose!

[blackmageheart]

Thank you spin, and Lord Libidan, for your copyright infos!

I agree with you, spin - had the pattern RMDC posted been different in some way, even slightly, I would have left it up. The idea in itself is not a new one - we've all seen the Mario Home Sweet Home pieces, etc. This pattern was just about identical to the Etsy listing and I didn't feel it was appropriate to leave it up; incase the seller came knocking, so to speak. But I do not blame RMDC one bit. He had no way of knowing, and like you say, pattern makers can't go around checking all the time to see if it's already been done / on sale somewhere. That responsibility really lies with the person requesting the pattern, in my opinion. And as La Ptite Bete says, it is more of an ethical problem rather than a legal one - at least for me it is, anyway!

You're right; I should have checked. My apologies. That'll teach me to be more careful!

It's alright, no harm done!

[blackmageheart]

Yes... The boundary between what is legal, and what is not, isn't very clear, indeed. I think it's more an ethics and honnesty problem, than a law one. I wouldn't feel very proud to copy and stitch a paying pattern, without have paid it, just staring at the pics ; but I would not feel so sorry if this pattern doesn't seem to have required a lot of work ; if what makes it interesting is more the concept, than an effective work (I'm not very clear myself, not easy to explain it in english... sorry !!). In other words, if you use well known sprites, and just add a quote below ; I won't do it anyway (from a paying pattern I mean), because I prefer to find an idea, and design my own patterns, now I know KG charts !! but... to me, there should be different tolerance levels... In the same idea, if I were a pattern designer, I don't think I would want to make money with these patterns, which I feel they don't belong to me...

This is beautifully put, I think you've hit it on the nose!

I concur! ^^

[Lord Libidan]

It's alright if you didn't notice, but the pattern maker should have checked...

I agree that patterns from Etsy shouldn't be re-created here, but I don't think it's the pattern makers responsibility to search every site that sells cross stitch patterns (Etsy's not the only one) to make sure it's not for sale somewhere. It should be taken down if it's discovered, and avoided if possible, but if you see an image on Google, and it isn't obvious that it's for sale somewhere (like having an etsy address, for example) - then it's going to happen every once and awhile. This was a finished piece, not a picture of a pattern, so even that wouldn't have clued someone off. I don't think RMDC should be blamed for trying to fill a pattern request....

You're right actually, I think I just knew the pattern so would have been wary. I'm not blaming you RMDC!
Maybe we should ask people to post where they got it from when requesting? Might make it slightly easier...

Also, thanks spinuntilyoufall, I'm always glad to be a little clearer on copyright, it's damn confusing...

[blackmageheart]

Maybe we should ask people to post where they got it from when requesting? Might make it slightly easier...

Yes, good idea!

[La Ptite Bete]

Thank you Spinuntilyoufall (our copyright specialist !!), and Blackmageheart, for these precisions ; it seems a bit clearer in my mind now ; I'm glad we had this enriching discussion. RMDC, you're not to blame to me either
Good night

[spinuntilyoufall]

Maybe we should ask people to post where they got it from when requesting? Might make it slightly easier...

That's a great idea - especially if it's a finished piece like this, that way everybody can feel a little easier creating patterns. Love it!